Calling All Parents
Hey, it's Erik, the "worse half". As new parents Ambre and I are looking into all the myriad decisions that need to be made. Right now, vaccines are on our radar. We rejected the hepatitis B shot when Inara was 1 day old(!!!?) because we did not foresee her sharing hypodermic needles with anyone to shoot up heroin. In fact we have trained her since she was but a babe, since we as parents realize we can't stop infants from shooting up heroin, to *always* bring a clean needle with her wherever she goes. Personally, I think our country's public access to clean needles is despicable compared with much more enlightened European nations, and Mongolia.
OK, back to serious!
We are wondering what research/decisions other parents of youngins have made with vaccines, and why, and specifically some resources to help us. We are planning on home schooling, so it is not necessarily required to get all these vaccines in the first place. We have looked into some of the different considerations, such as the fact that many vaccines contain a preservative that contains a type of mercury (those are banned in Iowa except for in flu shots anyway), and I think the biggest question for us at this point is simply whether a 2 month old's immune system can really handle a bunch of vaccines, and what kinds of risks there are to getting the vaccines or not getting them (face it, there are risks to everything...). And then, if we do not agree with the standard vaccine schedule, what (if any) kind of vaccine schedule do we adhere to? We aren't anti-medical, but think it would be irresponsible of ourselves to write a blank check to doctors with the life God has given us to look after, especially with the upsurge in things like allergies, autism, and other odd conditions that weren't as common years ago. However, we're not doctors either and don't have the expertise they do, and do respect the work they do, but they are not infallible. So, if you have any helpful information at all, we'd appreciate it, thanks!
posted by .ambre. | Tuesday, March 06, 2007
10 Comments:
When I'm researching anything scientific, I don't use a web search to come to conclusions; there's just too much pseudo-science out there polluting the information space.
I use Google scholar (scholar.google.com) and PubMed (www.pubmed.org) to search through the peer-reviewed scientific literature. These tools will pull up the medical studies that doctors use to make their decisions about what to do. You should be able to search on each of the vaccines to find out what studies have shown about side effects and disease prevention.
You may not be able to read the entire article without a subscription to the journal, but you never know; and you may be able to get enough information from the abstract, anyway.
Of course, as a parent, I haven't used these tools. We've just gotten our kid vaccinated in the manner the doctor prescribes. But then again, I have a fair amount of trust in the system. Most kids turn out okay (with respect to vaccine side-effects) and I've got much bigger fish to fry than pulling up all the latest studies on each vaccine.
Another way to look at this is, what does a doctor or the American Academy of Pediatrics have to gain by deceiving you into vaccinating your kid? I don't think it's anything monetary. The doctor doesn't get paid any more for vaccinating your kid and neither does the AAP. I think they're trying to reduce the spread of communicable disease, and they see that as gain.
I, uh, had no idea they were vaccinating kids at one day of age these days (?!?). I mean, can't they give the little tyke a break? Birth is a big deal for newborn babies; let them have a while to adjust or something. I don't know.
Well, I'm pretty sure that recreational drug use isn't the only variable when it comes to hepB. I'd assume to take the cautious approach of "leaving every box checked," myself. I mean, sure, being homeschooled will mean less likelihood for being exposed to certain things found among populations of little children, but homeschooling is certainly NOT a quarantine from potential of encountering the hazardous viruses of the world. I'm assuming that homeschooled children nowadays have plenty of social contact with others of their cohorts, or other children in the extended family, the child's parents, etc. ...so the likelyhood isn't anywhere near zero. Guess one would leave it to the types of references Tony (above) mentioned to figure out what exactly we perceive these "likelihoods" to be.
I know you folks' intentions are good, so my thought is that hopefully/assumably you'd consider most highly the decisions which thoroughly promote the health for your child in the present and in the future as thoroughly as possible (based on what we know with today's medicine and technologies and such)... and perhaps put consideration for, say, your own personal philosophical biases on the side.
(...and while always getting a second doctor's opinion. Even though I'm sure you'd figure it out if you were dealing with a reak wacko or something.)
[disclaimer: this opinion from one who is a non-parent, but who HAS at least undergone thorough vaccinations]
Boy oh Boy, you have gotten yourself into some deep waters w/ lots and lots of opinions on how to best swim. here's what were are doing (briefly). Anne is 10 months old and has never recieved a shot in her life. We will not vaccinate until she is at least 2 years old. Forgetting all of the facts on what is dangerous to an infant's immune system, what causes autism, etc, let me just tell you what i have learned about the vaccines themselves and more specifically the diseases they "protect" against.
Vacerilla: (Aka, chicken pox). this shot will protect against chicken pox until about age 20 when catching the chicken pox (which you didn't get as a child because you were "vaccinated" against it) is now a life threating disease.
Hep B: this protects agains a disease you get from sharing needles from doing drugs and from sexual behavior. this vaccine wears off at at 10-15 years old, precisely when risky behaviors may start and you might need the vaccine.
DTaP: One of the things it protects against is Pertussis...Ie Whooping cough. A fairly "harmless" (in the scheme of things) disease that is not life threatening. a few years ago (or maybe last year) an outbreak occured of whooping cough and i can pretty much garuntee (w/o proof) that all those kids were vaccinated. My point, no real protection in my opinion.
MMR: One of the things it protects against is Rubella, which boys cannot get but girls can. A girl will only need to be protected from this when she is pregnant when she can then check to see if she has the antibodies and if not, get vaccinated then.
MMR also protects against Mumps. Another harmless disease.
Finally MMR protects from Measels, a very serious and life threatening disease which can and should be protected against.
Polio: You can look this up on the CDC but i think your chance of winning the lotto is better than getting polio in the US. Good to get if you are traveling to India.
Flu shot: Useless unless you want the flu.
So, those are the things I know about. Hope that helps. I am not anti medical either, i just don't think that the medical community looks at facts. They do things out of routine. (for example-giving an episiotmy routinuely rather than trying different positions, waiting to see if baby labors down, perineal massage, etc.) There are a lot of things the medical community does out of routinue w/ no real facts behind it.
Good luck.
April
With all respect and civility to April, I'd have to disagree with with the notion that the medical community doesn't look at facts. I'm sure you can find places where people do things out of routine (mindlessly, even), but I don't stop going to church because the person next to me isn't singing the songs from the bottom of their heart either. Everyone you'll talk to in the medical community is human. They were little kids once, went through school, got the job at the particluar hospital that they work at, and there is a broad spectrum of people with a broad spectrum of "care" that they put into their work and patients. Just like in every other realm of life.
Growing up in Africa, some of these will be a no-brainer for Sarah and I. Hepatitis, Polio, etc... If you stay in a small town of Iowa for most of your life, you probably won't need those. However, the magnitude of regret you would feel should you win that "lottery" would be immense. My family was friends with a woman in Sierra Leone that had polio as a child, and her legs were almost unrecognizable. Hepatitis will also jack you up pretty good.
I think Chicken Pox is part of being a little kid, honestly. I have fond memories. Granted, I don't remember the discomfort, only the ice cream and the school days missed.
Whopping Cough sucks. I had it in Africa. It honestly sucks.
What Sarah and I will be doing is probably what you're doing (and maybe even with the same end results) - looking at the list of options and making a judgement call. It's a little more dear to my heart because vaccines might have saved my life growing up. But like I said, if you aren't hanging out with Internationals or going abroad, or having friends that go abroad, you don't have a TON to worry about.
In my worldview, many vaccines are totally worth it, but so is allowing the immune system to get tough on it's own (let your kids be exposed to stuff growing up, let them get sick, and let their bodies grow stronger). It worked for me.
Oh yea, and FYI everybody - I was the dirty college roomate that taught Erik how to do heroin properly.
We had Joshua vaccinated (and will have Sarah be, too) because it was pretty hard to find a real, genuine, graduated doctor worth his salt who wouldn't recommend you to do it.
Plus, the VAST majority of kids are getting vaccines, and it seems to work fine for them. ;)
Just to back up a little of what i said by some medical fact, we do go to a doctor's office where 70% of thier patients do not vaccinize ever. almost 100% do at least a delayed or spread out vaccination, which is what we will do. Our doctors in fact, don't advocate vaccinations. They are all doctors, they all have MDs, went to medical school, passed the tests and many of them have been doctors for 20+ years. the president of the practice, in fact, highly recommended against Hep B, vacerilla, and the flu shot. At our practice, the rate of autism is considerably LESS than the general public, which the president of the group said he believes is due to them not vaccinating. I just wanted to put that out there because my husband and i haven't made blind choices, we are doing what we are donig w/ the blessing and knowledge many doctors. (we've talked to 4 in the practice and all are in agreeance.)
that said, i do believe the disease we are protecting against are horrible and if it were 50 years ago, when there was a chance of getting them, i would definately have vaccinated w/o a second thought. however, as stated, unless we are living in africa, we aren't going to get polio. we might still vaccinate against it, we haven't decided, i just know the chance of getting it isn't very hight at all. (i also said we would vaccinate against measles because the mortality rate is large enough and i believe the disease is common enough that it deserves vaccination against.)
Thanks for the well put comments back. I appreciate the intellectual stimulation. :)
April
by the way, doctors do do things out of routinue, the whole process of birth is done out of routinue and not fact. there are thousands of studies showing certain things don't work and other, more holistic things do, yet we continue to do the things that are "medical". (for example the world health organization reccomends that all healthy women give birth at home. yet in america something like 98% of births are in a hospital. also america has the second highest newborn fatality rate among industrialized nations, obviously we are doing something wrong if it's that high. just some more points to stir the pot. )
"DTaP: One of the things it protects against is Pertussis...Ie Whooping cough. A fairly "harmless" (in the scheme of things) disease that is not life threatening. a few years ago (or maybe last year) an outbreak occured of whooping cough and i can pretty much garuntee (w/o proof) that all those kids were vaccinated."
Not quite...whooping cough kills (almost exclusively) infants and the elderly....
From an anonymous nurse:
"The whole home schooling culture is pretty big on this one. They feel that vaccines are made using animal cells and that vaccines cause health problems and they miss the important point that vaccines also prevent diseases and that all their friends in the homeschooling group can all pass deadly diseases back and forth between their families. Most of the people who don't get vaccines for their children have never seen people suffer with any of the diseases vaccines prevent--because most people get vaccinated!"
erik wasn't saying we won't vaccinate because we're homeschoolers... his point was we could do it on a different timetable from public school kids without having to do a bunch of paperwork before starting kindergarten if we so desired. i feel that too many people assumed way too much from his post. it was really just meant to spark a conversation. as educated, caring parents we were just looking for more resources that we may have overlooked. we have been working closely with our pediatrician and believe we have now found the answers to our questions and concerns... i would expect any caring parent in our situation to do the same and not just follow with a blind trust.
Ryan-from the CDC website: 25,000 cases of whooping cough stil exist today. 10-20 will die from it. That puts the death rate at .04-.08 percent.
My husband and I are now trying to decide when and which immunizations to give our daughter. We will weigh the seriousness of the disease again the side effects of the immunization. For a lot of these, our daughter is now past the infant stage and we have less to worry about. But, as ambre said, this is not something to just follow "blindly". Yes, it would be awful to find out that you could have prevented a disease. It would be equally awful to find out that there are dire consequenses of a vaccine because it had not been studied enough or hadn't been on the market enough. (Come on, is there really enough proof that the HPV vaccine is safe-how long could they possibly have studied it. thankfully we will have 10 years+ before we need to get it and then i would consider it on the market long enough to deem it safe).
Anyway, as ambre said, just sparking a discussion.
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